The Paris “Cenerentola” (2017) Liveblogging Thread

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Welcome to the White Shirt live comment thread for Rossini’s “La Cenerentola” from Prais (2017), conducted by Ottavio Dantone and staged by Guillaume Gallienne.

Cast List:

Angelina – Teresa Iervolino
Don Ramiro –
Juan José De León
Dandini – Alessio Arduini
Don Magnifico – Maurizio Muraro
Clorinda – Chiara Skerath
Tisbe – Isabelle Druet
Alidoro – Roberto Tagliavini

Libretto: German, Italian (html) Italian (pdf), Ye Olde English/Italian (image view)

431 thoughts on “The Paris “Cenerentola” (2017) Liveblogging Thread”

          1. (radio broadcast of course, and rai quality, so beware. but we heard ok. Dehggi even wrote a post about it i think, as well as translating S.Mingardo’s and others’ interviews… let me go look…)

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            1. jeah. and the theater is *amazing* in sound, just dont sit anywhere on side boxes.. otherwise, dream destination. quite a good cast. This coming season they’re bringing in a herd of generic 19th century music and another herd of CT for early music, poo.

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      1. I have 2 radio broadcasts totall, Brigitte.. I’ll upload to my dropbox later today and send you and Agathe the links! (one from Bologna 2003, i forgot who Cesare was in that one… and the 2nd is Torino 2014).

        Agathe, Cesare in 2003 is Barcellona!!

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        1. Thank you in advance. Btw do you know of anyone who captured the livestream from Munich last night (Schreker: die Gezeichneten)? UnfortunateIy I missed it, but would be very interested to get it ;-€

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          1. Me, too! (I realized too late it has Naglestad). The Munich streams, unless featuring Kaufmann and/or Harteros, are notoriously hard to find – I am still looking for the Frau ohne Schatten.

            >

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            1. my filemaker database says I do have it, shall investigate tomorrow in which format and where. Btw I am recording the sound of Schreker from BR klassik right now and addtionally have a mute video file of it, so this performance seems to be saved too, alleluja

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          2. Brigitte, my email has not been working (i think the entire yahoo site? can anyone get on anything yahoo? ) for the past 12+ hours… so i put the links at the bottom of this entire comment section.

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            1. ah ok. i have seen it with Genaux & Kasarova.. very nice sound from the orchestra!! I think every single mezzo has gone through Cenerentola. I read the other day S.Mingardo sang this after winning the 1st prize at some competition back in 1988 (they assigned her to sing this!)

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        1. (Dehggi apparently understands *many* languages!! she has helped translating numerous ACA’s and Mingardo’s interviews for me , very nicely too, i only *suggested* if dear readers who understand Italian could translate 😀 )

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          1. and to many more 🙂

            (Iervolino is adorable. Her voice still makes me look for the sword she has to be holding, but give me another ten minutes to adjust)

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          1. but compared to Dandini’s “I make ads for mediocre supposedly Italian espresso and moonlight by night as a flamenco-dancing vampire” looks, he is doing okay for me.

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    1. I am only just jumping in, but it looks like a nice point against ableism? The prince can also have a limp (is the brace a play on the glass slipper)

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        1. I am loving the entire doing away with glamour and bourgeois feminity on Cenerentola (and I really want to see how they resolve this in the very end)

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            1. but I think even the bar was more charming-retro? not such a dramatic rusty steampunk setup? (which might have to do with the sheer size of the stage, too)

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            2. though Genaux’s apron in comparison to “How do we make a penitence potato sack as drab as possible?” was positively haute couture.

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  1. so, no dress up in suit? tsk tsk tsk. would be nice if they stage a contralto and transpose music up for … wait.. i think this is now Don Magnifico? before was Don Ramiro?..
    right a contralto walking in, with all women in dresses awaiting…

    btw, this bass really does NOT have the low notes.

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          1. jeah. *super* like how vivid he keeps it. also light. (but again, we’re hearing from the mic perspective, but yes, i’m quite certain he can balance it quite well to not overwhelmed the singers. Dehggi was babbling about him nonstop in Torino and after Torino…)

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        1. Magnifico seems the long-lost cousin of René Jacobs?

          And Dandini seems best in the recits bits so far?

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  2. I think one reason for Iervolino being so well suited for Rossini is her quite full-bodied voice, so she doesn’t need to push to be heard and can stay nimble in the coloratura

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    1. too much beau for me, I think (I still remember that fab Dandini in Lille). the prince does have puppy eyes, but he probably reminds me of someone.

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    1. so do the guys.
      (darker take here, with an evil Magnifico? I like that it is not glossing over the abuse)

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    1. loving the coloratura! but also the melancholy note there, makes me wonder about later 19th century fits for her.

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      1. an they are actually staging it as “she does on the spot there”, so later the evil family will not recognize/expect her at the ball?

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        1. Since I posted a half dozen shots of her recently, I do have her stature and face on my mind, true. (short forehead, tall frame, and the eye slant?)

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            1. oh, another type comparison thing – I would not link those two, but I think my primary marker there is height?

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          1. no need to read. apparently she must have updated something, like her phone.. because she’s now using wifi *live* from the show.. (and she was making fun of me following the yellow dot on my phone.. until we needed it in Torino to figure out where to get off the bus as the yellow dot suddenly took a turn away from our host’s place..)

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    1. I’d accept those rocker poses from them better, too. Well, at least from the mezzos…

      (wait, is the Prince a returned and mangled war veteran in his disguise?)

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    1. hahaha!

      So, I am conflicted: bass in a wifebeater, no thanks, but the orchestra and chorus, yes please.

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          1. jeah, i was already suggesting to have Dandini as a contralto. In this version the prince would be a high voice soprano (preferentially with rough edge voice) , coming for the contralto under the stairs..

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  3. Usually this bromance scene is dragging on for me, but the orchestra is so good that I am just swinging along here and don’t want it to end.

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    1. 😀 😀

      (heights are kind of nasal, with a fast slackline vibrato – not bad, but kind of standing out?)

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    1. less Sicilian widow?

      on a costume detail note: Dandini, honey, that car chain around your neck has to go.

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      1. that was pretty bad in the Valencia Tancredi with Amemaide being held in chains by 5 or 6 men, half-heartedly fighting to get out and thrown to the ground…ugh

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        1. (while these 2 guys are going at it.. i found out the 2003 Bologna’s Cesare (where S.Mingardo was Cornelia) was Barcellona, Agathe. you want that radio broadcast too?)

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            1. (jeah, i think i’m correct, check that cast out as well!!
              Il soprano spagnolo Maria Bayo interpreterà Cleopatra, in alternanza con Elisabetta Scano, mentre il mezzosoprano Daniela Barcellona rivestirà i panni di Giulio Cesare. Con loro: Monica Bacelli, Sergio Foresti, Sara Mingardo, Mirco Palazzi, Silvia Tro Santafé, Eufemia Tufano. Le scene sono di Margherita Palli, i costumi di Gianluca Sbicca e Simone Valsecchi, le luci di Guido Levi.)

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    1. the top note right now wasn’t bad – sounded like the hall ins gigantic.
      (he probably reminds me of the some girl I once knew or liked or both, so i am more tenorpatient tonight)

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        1. you do have a point there.

          “Stop casting Rossini mezzo leads with sopranos, go for contraltos instead 2017”.

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    2. but I like that he isn’t bragging or smarmy and embraces the working class masculinity setup there without the machismo.

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    1. and how are they playing the “Oh God he wants to marry me, UGH; no” on Magnifico’s part – doesn’t he want money and titles to badly that he’d marry the prince in a heartbeat? Why this NoHomo vibe?

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    1. I wonder what the miniature scenes mean, like the one with the child-Cenerentola double and the socialite mother?

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    1. I thought he looked hung over…
      So, does the uniform make difference, Agathe, or do uniforms only work on Barcellona and Mingardo?

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    2. in the uniform, he reminds me of the now husband of the Swedish Crown Princess (or is she queen by now?)

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          1. (no, i am thinking along a different line. please bare with me, am quoting the bible! i did grow up with extensive memorization of it.., like jesus kneeling down washing feet, “i run this joint from now on honey, i can huff and puff you out of this box, but i’m demonstrating my grace.
            Surely the church might disagree with my take on that passage of reading..)

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        1. yes, good detail.
          And, actually, everyone else can leave already. We’ll be happy with just one contralto rocking the stage, thanks.

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  4. the crow seems to love the Tovey Spear Bass, but at least there are also a fair amount of cheers for Iervolino.

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    1. yep, we still have at least one lined up ;-), and then I hope we’ll get a bit of festival coverage – Aix Carmen and Cavalli, e.g.

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    1. Thank you! (but I’ll be still around until Wednesday). So Prina and Barcellona get integrated into your Mingardo folder aka IC folder? much appreciated!

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      1. they have been in my “Mingardo folder” since a long time, am happy to share, now that we sorted out the soprano bin and mezzo/contralto bins 🙂 . i’m now going through listening slowly, so many things.. here she is, with Japanese subtitles! (Tamerlano.. i havent seen this since 1st attempt way back 3 yrs ago..)

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  5. random news, my mail hasn’t been working.. so am going to drop here temporary:
    1. giulio cesare, bologna 2003, Alessandrini, Barcellona: Cesare, Maria Bayo: Cleopatra, S.Mingardo: Cornelila, M.Barcelli: Sesto, Silvia Tro Santafé: Tolomeo. i really like it, i find it superior in both quality (may be somebody hashed it out?) as well as musically, compared to Torino. I think Alessandrini is a huge difference here.

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    1. interestingly, its staging was used in an academic slideshow (sadly only 1, but should keep Agathe very happy). the last slide is from the Poppea in Bologna which Dehggi and I have been babbling about lately (since oct 2014 actually, on and off..)

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      1. 😀 So Barcellona as Richard Burton!? I would have so liked to hear that talk! (have you posted about that Poppea? will search your sites)

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        1. which Poppea? the Bologna? with ACA and J.Lamore and Bernadette Manca di Nissa (as Ottone)? I”d like that to be on our next year liveblog list! (and am happy to report Dehggi likes that one.., i’m totallly smitten of course with silky Poppea…)

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    2. 2. giulio cesare, torino 2014, S.Prina: Cesare, J.Pratt: Cleopatre, S.Mingardo: Cornelia, M.Beaumont-the-rabbit-butcher: Sesto, a CT: Tolomeo. The usual bad quality from Rai radio. but yay they broadcast. having been to Italy and seen how slow their internet is, i think it’s justified to still have this quality over radio to at least reach people?

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      1. Great, so hard to decide which one to listen to first! (and it seems I need to download anything I might need before my holidays in the land of contraltos :-), no, don’t say anything, it’s for the landscape, food and climate, and possibly some statue sightseeing with the kids)

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        1. Contralto statues?
          (And, wow, your kids are accepting museums and churches? – mine only allows themselves to be dragged along with dramatic eyerolls. Proclaiming constantly how Boring things are)

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          1. Oh, I could make a game out of this (how would favourite ICs look in this statue’s posture?)
            I guess my kids would accept churches and museums, at least for some minutes, but churches and museums likely won’t tolerate them, so it’s going to be outdoor sightseeing with icecream.

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            1. “…and it’s a museum where you are not allowed to touch anything!!”
              (the Valkyries, very annoyed, after their first traditional museum visit, when, before, we only took them to touch-it-all children’s exhibitions)

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      2. Thank you so much! and please could you all keep your eyes open for a capture of last night’s stream from Munich (Schreker: die Gezeichneten). It seems to have been an exceptional performance and it is so rarely done.

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      1. she was really good in this, at the beginning it took a bit to adjust i find.. but very sensitive phrasing, lots of claps. that whole show, Mingardo was overwhelmingly sensitive (i find), very touching. so was Bacelli.. oh jeah, Bayo! i read some complaints of her “over the top decoration” , these people clearly don’t listen to Baroque music and probably anything slightly different than what they’ve heard is over-decorated? i thought she was fantastic. from early music camp!

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        1. I don’t know Bayo that well, but she does also does a lot of 19th century and a lot of Spanish repertory – I didn’t think she was Early Music by degree? But I find she does so very well, she was my first Calisto (and, as mentioned several times on here, my first Amenaide) and it was with Jacobs, and if Jacobs takes you on, I don’t think your ornamentation can be off.

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          1. jeah, her name caught on to me after you mentioned her Calisto and Amenaide. i really like her take on the arias, very good taste (to my ears) , i was expecting wild jumps & demonstration based on that review i read.. then .. ok, this is early music, duh. Some how she reminded me of Galli , the way she “expands” the music, i think some voices have the ability to leave room for you to see “inside” the phrase?

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        2. will try to pay attention to Bayo, despite the massive distractions from the contralto front. But she sounds familiar, was she maybe in that Parma L’incoronazione (the fencing one?)

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          1. no that s someone else. i do pay attention to sopranos when they are paired with “my” mezzos/ contraltos since taking/receiving reaction is one of the things i always pay attention to 🙂

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      2. For Baroque approximation, there is the Scarlatti – sometimes not the super precision in the ornamentation that early music specialists would have, but the dramatic impulse and delivery is So Good.

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        1. It totally works for me, I was wondering, because until hearing this, I thought there might be a good reason why she has not sung any Händel for so long. But now I think the only reason might be that she is just very far away from CT sound and style and since this has more and more dictated audience’s tastes, she doesn’t fit in. But for a character like Cesare, come on, it just works (I also adore her coloratura in Empio diro tu sei). Funnily enough, I even see parallels with Sonia Prina’s style of doing Cesare, even if the voice and vocal technique remains quite different, so I guess it must be more the overall approach to engage with the role, with things like the way of emphasizing text.

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          1. CT aesthetics permeating current expectations may be a very valid point. With a larger middle/lower range resonance, the approach will change automatically. But I’d also see similiarities between Barcellona and Prina, even though one is more Early Music, and the other more Belcanto.

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  6. (ps- post vacay, we can also resume our discussions of patterns and “types” etc. I sat through Tamerlano yesterday and was “irritated” quite a bit by M.Bacelli’s movements and it reminded me of the same irritation in her Ruggiero in Geneva.. and I knew she’s not always acting this way so i thought perhaps it’s the director’s ideas.. but when 2 separate performances yielded similar “patterns” of movements that irk me from the same singer, i thought it’s related to what we discussed earlier: that we perceive a certain movement is appropriate in a certain setting and there are those that somehow just rub one of us the wrong way and yet is totally appropriate / working very well for others..
    oh, and i also found finally a staging where the costumes bothered me greatly.. )

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    1. yes, we need to continue this. Bacelli would be a good starting point – her Idamante, I found enchanting, but I couldn’t deal with the Geneva “Alcina” at all (despite there being some good Bösch, and defintely a lot of good Bacelli out there). Pattern scopes for movements regarding appropiate contexts – or what “calls up” a reaction and what does not… I think you are onto something there.

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    2. I was about to answer the same as Anik with regard to her Idamante, which was very charming, but yes, maybe the context is important, and then, in addition, as you say, our distinct ways of perceiving a way of movement as ‘right’ for the role. I think her movements have a bit of a ‘wooden’ quality, which in my view worked for Idamante who was young, inexperienced and rather straightforward with regard to motivations (at least in that staging). But it could be entirely different for someone else (we should liveblog that Idomeneo).
      And I do notice increasingly that ways of movement are very important regarding our ‘types’, like in the Carnegy hall Ariodante, where Polinesso just came in, putting on an arrogant posture in relation to Ginevra and I was already pretty much gone. But I guess this only works on the background of the combined perception of a singer, of course including voice. So, the same pose on someone you don’t like would likely seem threatening or appalling.

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      1. quick jumping in before my bedtime..
        i don’t know if it has anything to do with “someone you don’t like” .. i think it’s applicable for me with almost all singers: though i’m not passing out with S.Prina’s Polinesso, i *fully* understand her movements and characters. At least for me when a singer makes me irritated (as opposed to being indifferent) that’s going an extra level of hitting the “making no-sense” nerve pushing toward “over-doing” point.. like those male singers in female roles in the army Poppea, that sort of over-doing..
        I’ve been thinking about it lately: is it safer to just *not* do much (making audience indifferent) versus “trying” and risking pushing perhaps too hard to the point of over-doing? And in the end we should celebrate performers who dare to do *something* at the risk of over-doing (?) instead of play safe and sound/look beautiful (?) . There’s of course a critical balance somewhere that separates certain performers in such a way that they touch us deeply (now is where the subjective part comes in.)

        I wonder if in addition to that Idamante, we will also do the Tamerlano, so we can see “general” movements and their applications in different scenarios?

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        1. Oh, great, because I was just thinking further in the same direction, the question of overdoing, and what you said about movements we feel being ‘appropriate’. And I think this applied to me in the Schwetzingen Poppea, that I was just constantly thinking ‘a tiny bit too much’, and I asked myself if it is really the movements or rather the singers that I don’t like enough (for whatever reasons) to ‘allow’ them those movements. So, to test, I was trying to imagine my favourite singers doing those exact movements, and, I just couldn’t, because I think to some extent, the way of moving is inert to an individual person and can only to some extent be adapted, i.e. for different roles (and it clearly goes beyond sheer ‘masculine’/’feminine’ attributes there). So, this would speak in favour of movements (and their appropriateness in a situation) being a part of ‘type’ (‘type’ of course in the sense that incorporates crucial features like voice/phrasing/vulnerability type).
          But, in reply to what you asked about ‘is it better to play safe and not overdo’, I think, since movement are part of a person’s personality, I think the range within which a singer can decide ‘more or less’ is limited (just as, in my view, the possibility to adapt movements to different roles is limited). What is most important, is authenticity, so, i.e. Barcellona is sometimes doing hand gestures that she probably incorporated into a specific role long ago, and, I wouldn’t need that gesture, but, because it comes authentically, it doesn’t seem artificial and overdone. And, while I could not connect to the Schwetzingen Poppea the way you both did, I agree that the singers seemed authentic, acting within their range of personality. I guess things go really wrong when a singer forces her/himself to movements he has not connection to, maybe that’s what happened in the male/female roles in the Poppea.
          Yes, comparing the Idomeneo and Tamerlano will be interesting, I wanted to ask you for the Tamerlano anyway 🙂

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          1. “…when a singer forces her/himself to movements he has not connection to…”

            oh that is a core point for me, too. Thank you for all of this – still no time to reply in-depth, but I love this reply. – Now, of course, for illustration purposes, you will have to name a Barcellona gesture this applies to. With gif evidence!

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            1. Have you thought this request through? Now I’m going to bombard you with Barcellona material 🙂
              No gif, and not specifically related to gestures, but, in case you have a fb account, have a look at this OMG! (it doesn’t even matter much that the filmer was clearly focusing on Pratt, she was so good here, as well)

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            2. I have thought this through very well, and that is precisely what I hoped for 😉

              Thank you for the video – downloading now!

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            3. There’s another one of finale I, mostly Pratt of course, with a few pining Tancredi intersections, sigh….
              (and there’s Belli, who looked stunning in that WW1 dress, and was acting well, but I felt she was pushing a bit in the lower parts)

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            4. It seems I haven’t, spending most of the evening trying to install a program that may download fb video, while so many things need to be done pre-vacation….
              But I have it secured on my notebook now 🙂

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        2. Applauding (at least rationally) a singer daring to do something: absolutely. Even if it doesn’t click on a type-level (nonrational), but that may also entail that “trying something” is usual at least somewhat positive – I rarely get upset there. The ones where the movement (though again, I think I don’t enter by movement as a marker, but by narrative stance) strikes me as wrong usually comes from a place of not trying, or from sensing a disconnect between pose and body.

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      2. So: Idomeneo, Tamerlano, The Aix Carmen, the Aix Cavalli, Poppea Bologna…

        Hm, singer narratives/self-stagings to play a role when it comes to a role, it seems (and gender is one part of that – I would have had a different reaction to a CT Poliness in these poses, but even then, it would have depended a lot on the indiviual CT)

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        1. And reactions to CTs, sure, the same for me, the ‘even when creepy bonus’ rarely applies to men, with some exceptions, like Dumaux. Which again relates to vulnerability, which to me is more readily visible when the character is played by a woman (e.g. Prina’s Bicket Polinesso still had some, I really loved your interpretation on him in your review).

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